After Brentford’s FA Cup loss to Chelsea, Billy Grant forgets the match report .. and goes on a ramble instead … weaving between talking about ‘New Brentford’ .. is the club losing soul? … to discussing our obsession with giving the press ammunition to bury ourselves with … to assessing the fans’ views on why the Bees failed to perform at the weekend and more importantly, where they see our season going.
Its FA Cup Saturday. Brentford are being torn apart by Champions elect Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. Bees fans stood or sat (depending on if you were in the Upper Tier or Lower Tier) and watched in dismay as they saw their team go down without barely a fight in a match surely every player would have been dreaming of playing in from his Childhood.
And on the Beesotted Post Match Podcast from the pub (click above), fans were stinging in their criticism of the team, the players and the way we approached this match.
One interesting opinion to emerge from the podcast was how one fan viewed ‘New Brentford’.
“We’re medium We’re growing up and paying the bills. There’s no more excitement. We sell players. We pay the bills. We go to games like this and don’t really try. We have talented players who have no heart. This is what life is now. It’s what we could ever have hoped for. You should be grateful for it. Just like you’re grateful for having a house when everyone is renting. But it’s not very exciting.”
Is that really where Brentford is going? Don’t get me wrong. Everything the club is doing makes sense logically. But every time we see ourselves moving forward, we then take a few backward shuffles as the reality strikes home that we are still are unable to compete in the long term.
And as we take these backwards steps, we lose an inch wincy bit of soul. We get excited when we see us moving forward. Then we get every so slightly crushed each time we move backwards. And we just accept … coz that’s the way it is.
But is that the compromise?
A loss of the soul?
We used to not be a very good team on the pitch. But at least we used to have soul. Are we losing that? Is it inevitable as we become bigger? Is it possible to grow and maintain soul?
Or is the above opinion just a a view from the depths of despair of defeat? And tomorrow, everything will be OK again?
Many – not all – of us accept that Brentford have to be on the cutting end and try new things to keep ahead of the game. But whereas Brighton – who run their club in a very similar fashion to Brentford with their owner Tony Bloom (also a professional gambler) running a company very similar in nature to SmartOdds – are very secretive about the way they do their business, we are not. Does it really help to know the ins and outs of how we do our business?
Brentford were the focus of articles in both The Guardian and The Times at the weekend which claimed “Brentford’s Unique Approach To Player Recruitment Could Undo Chelsea”. Needless to say, our limp performance at Stamford Bridge gave Martin Samuel from The Daily Mail ammunition to shoot us down on Monday morning.
The year we got to the Championship playoff semi-final, Brighton – who use the same stats-type approach as us – just avoided relegation from the Championship finishing 20th. I didn’t see Martin Samuel and half of Fleet Street tearing them to pieces that summer. Of course not. Because they have no idea what Brighton are up to.
Sometimes we don’t help ourselves.
Back to Saturday’s farce. Many of us would have had Chelsea mates in the opposing stands who we would have conducted a post-match analysis in the pub with. Normally you have one boasting moment within a match – even if you get beaten. On Saturday, we did not live up to any of the pre-match hype at all. There was not one moment to brag about in the pub afterwards. It was embarrassing.
Which brings me onto another source of fan opinion from this weekend – our Brentford WhatsApp Banter group. In it going into the match, a comparison was made between the current Brentford team and Uwe Rosler’s team which battled out a 2-2 draw against Chelsea at Griffin Park before going down 4-0 in the replay at Stamford Bridge four years ago.
That side ironically contained Paul Hayes in the squad. Hayes was a player who was deemed not good enough for Brentford’s Division One Promotion winning team. However, while our players were fanning around the pitch teeing the ball up for Chelsea players to bury in the back of the net, Hayes was up at White Hart Lane tearing the Tottenham defence a new @rsehole – banging in two goals to boot as Wycombe battled till the end (and scored three goals) against a top-of-the table Tottenham side.
So as I sat around on Sunday afternoon feeling slightly sorry for myself (I was tired after a long Saturday. I would say hungover .. but I still have to – after 30 plus years on the beers – experience one of those), I started to flick back through the long stream of WhatsApp messages I had received the following day on our Brentford Banter Group.
The ring is made up of all sorts of characters. Some who watch what Brentford are doing from afar and are mildly critical but constructive. Some who were wary of the manager from day one. Some who backed the manager from day one. Some who have gone from backing the manager to being not sure. Some who prefer to bide their time and go with the flow before making an out an out opinion. Some who feel that the Directors of Football need to be more pro-active. Some who sympathise with our lack of clout in the transfer market. Interestingly, quite a few are concerned with the club seemingly not being able to bring in players quick enough to replace outgoing players – despite receiving the transfer cash.
Most of the banter crew believes that Brentford, with their approach, are pretty much on the right track. But they also acknowledge that a few major tweaks are still needed here and there – and making mistakes is just part of the journey.
Saying that, the mood is always measured and balanced. As acknowledging that there are a wide spectrum of opinions out there and everyone is fully entitled his or her point of view, there are some people who – even if we beat Chelsea 10-0 and we smashed Newcastle off the park a few weeks back – still have fundamental problem with how the club is run and will wait for a downturn in results to tell the world that is the case.
That’s fine as it reinforces the plethora of opinions flying around. However, what I never seem to understand – and I am seriously interested to know as I can then get a more rounded perspective on how our club should be run – is how they would do things differently under the circumstances.
Also, and I know many fans have the same opinion as myself in believing that we actually have a decent set of players. A set of players who on the whole are not performing. I know they’re not worldbeaters. And we all know that we need two or three players in key positions that would make an enormous difference to the side. But we currently have players in the team who can more than hold their own in his division.
Interestingly, Ankersen said in his Times interview that Brentford were 10th in the “club’s own league table rather” than the 15th place we currently occupy. Having seen every single Brentford match this season, I would agree that over 46 games, there are probably only nine sides in this division better than us. And lets be honest, we are also better overall as a team of players than that 2013 Uwe Rosler side. If not – especially with the money we have spent – we have to all admit that we have gone backwards.
At times in the last twelve months, we have played some really exciting football. But the key word is ‘at times’.
We’re not consistent.
And very much like with that early Uwe Rosler team, consistency and – at times – motivation is a major issue.
Back in the day, we would NEVER turn up for the big game. We had Big-Game-Itis. We seemed to have overcome that hurdle in the past few years.
However it seems in the last 6 months or so, we are back to square one with Brentford’s Big-Game-Itis.
Coming back to the banter characters … their more balanced opinion made me think “this would make a good article”.
Interestingly, the first message started at just after 15.30 when Brentford were 2-0 down. The fact that someone who is at the match is messaging criticism during a match says it all.
Here’s a transcript of some these Brentford fans’ thoughts over 24 hours during and after the Chelsea match:
15.30 – “Smith standing there with his hands on his pockets is really p!ssing me off. Look at Conte. Still moving players around even when 2-0 up”
“Completely out of his depth”
“Pointless playing this system with no width. Chelsea use width of the pitch, we keep making it smaller. No space when we do get ball. Bentley waving Barbet in. Does my head in”
“Scandalous that Field isn’t playing”
16.30 – “Interesting that (Thomas) Frank stood up on the bench after the third”
“I’d take Hogan off now”
“Dreadful decision. Play Hogan or don’t . On as sub is ridiculous”
“Yeah. Madness. Hogan has played 3 meaningful minutes of football in 3 weeks and is now risking 20 minutes of pointless football”
“But if he scores. Headlines. No risk when we’re 3-0 down. No battle (from Chelsea to injure him)”
“Maybe. But I’d like to think the market is a bit less reactive than that”
17.00 “Sawyers. Vibe. Nico. Some poor performances out there today. Willian was class”
“Premier league player in men v boys looking good shocker! Rosler’s team looked miles better than Smith’s”
“We were league one then. Meant to be top half champ now. No excuse for poor control and constantly giving ball away in first half or failing to get right side of the man at the back. How long can we continue to start slowly. Why cant we start like we did second half?”
“Some big cup shocks today. Shame we were nowhere near”
“We set up today like we were playing Burton at home without realising we were playing Chelsea away”
“Yep. Plus Hogan fiasco. No left back. Then KK (Kerschbaumer) not deemed worthy of five mins elsewhere comes on against prem leaders”
“Hes clueless he has to go…”
“I genuinely don’t know who is doing what in that midfield”
“Amazing stat that McEachran hasn’t scored a goal in his entire club career, roughly 120 games, and we see him as the secondary attacker! I guess McLeod’s the long term plan for number 10. It’s Sawyers at the moment as best I can make out”
Manager v player recruitment has always been a hot topic:
“Some people blame the DoFs and let Smith off scott free. It’s not so black and white”
“They’re wrong. Formation and team selection and tactics are Smiths. “Not turning up” is Smith. Tempo is Smith. Sawyers is Smith. Yes we need players urgently but that wasn’t yesterdays problem, no one expected a win, just a performance”
“I Agree about formation and team selection. I also thought it was a huge slap in the face for Tom Field, who deserved to be played & was the better fit for the formation. Field, Clarke, Hogan, Jota were 20 times more likely to get us a goal than Vibe, Sawyers, Barbet, Yennaris. Season’s over for me pretty much. Villa & Brighton at home, Burton away & I’ll let the better half dictate my attendance”
“Vibe looked like a kid playing with an older year group. Barbet looked like he was in the wrong stadium. Smith looked like he is in the wrong profession. Not knocking them tbh, they all try, but some aren’t good enough. Vibe is a waste of a shirt. And have backed Sawyers from day one but he was fkng awful today”
“Too harsh on Vibe, generally, in my opinion. Fair comment today because the opposition were just too good.”
“I hate knocking Vibe as he tries so hard but to me he isn’t the answer. Many selection/sub issues today but no Field, and Hogan on when game lost by far the worst for me. Atmosphere poor and v disappointing but not our fault that performance was unacceptable”
“We didn’t just not turn up against the best side in the country. We do it a lot. Then we have a good run. But our poor games are worrying. Our uwe rosler side had more b0llocks than that team. Is it the team. Or manager ? This team is better on paper than roslers team”
“Agree entirely. I see enough games to concur. Smith has to carry the can today. How anyone defend that? Field. Hogan. Kerschbaumer. Lack of tempo. No plan to deal with width. I was sober! I won’t watch us sober again if that’s what you mean!”
And the Brentford crowd got a bit of a panning. Saying that, all the guys in this discussion were in the top tier which apparently was morgue-esque compared to the bottom tier.
“And yet the worst thing today was the crowd..”
“The atmosphere wasn’t great anywhere, but at some point you need the players to give you something to sing about……”
Maybe it was because the eyes of the world were upon us. But it took a defeat against Chelsea to really get fans to put a periscope on our season and where we’re going.
And with two days to go before the transfer window closes shut, the conclusion from the character above is Brentford are lacking consistency, spark and at least a couple of players to keep this season alive.
The chances of promotion are next to nothing. And we’re not going down (and I said the same at this point last season too). So no point in rocking the ship. But the general consensus is on the pitch, Brentford needs to add to the ranks this window regardless to show our intent – moving forward and laying the groundwork for the next season whilst giving the fans a bit of excitement in the back end of season.
And with the likelihood of Hogan leaving in the next 48 hours, the chances of Brentford replacing him (a striker) so late in the window is unlikely considering the options available (or not available) to be honest.
However, if we do not add any other players to our ranks – pulling in a much needed central midfielder and ideally a player like Canos who can play both on both wings and also in an attacking position – you can be rest assured that Brentford fans will be not best pleased with how this season is looking to starting to pan out at all.
Billy Grant
@BillyTheBee99
I’d argue we have been consistent since the start of October. Consistently poor, averaging less than a point a game during that time. Not quite as bad as Jan-March last season, but putting us right down there in the form table over the last four months.
We are consistent too in losing to relegation-threatened shyte northern teams away.
Are fans expecting too much? The trouble is that people in prominent positions at the club have promised that finishing in the top six this season is very realistic and we will be stronger after every transfer window. That would be the DOFs then.
I think we have a right to expect some fight and spirit in the team, and that is lacking all too often at the moment.
DS has an interesting week ahead of him, that’s for sure.
Regards
Gordon
For many of us attending on Saturday this was only ever going to be a day out and having been at the Bridge only a few seasons ago we’d have preferred to have gone to Arsenal.
There was no atmosphere as today’s team has no heart and no goals in it anywhere on the pitch so there was no expectation whatsoever and what we got what was what we expected.
In midfield we have no width,no height,no fight,and no goals,if Clarke is fit he should be playing as before his injury he was really good, how KK can’t get a game is unbelievable, Field was very poor against Newcastle but had shown promise up until then, and Jota is back so play him,at least the crowd would get behind the team.
5th to 9th and now we would all take 19th as nobody can see where the next win is coming from, and YES you said it,it’s not in the least bit entertaining !!!
I don’t blame Hogan one little bit for not wanting to play in this team, cos I wouldn’t want to either, the service is non-existent and nobody else scores or even has a shot !!!!
I was all in favour with Smith’s appointment but come tomorrow’s visit of Villa if he selects SAWYERS to start then my season ticket is going in the dustbin and I’m staying at home.
Sawyers wd be a quality player in a team that’s playing well. He needs someone to do the box to box grafting for him for us to really see the best of him. Sadly that role seems to be a blind spot for our talent hunters
I can see Sawyers has ability Jim, and I’m not knocking him as he doesnt select himself to play or to substitute off, my issue is he trots around at 70% (speed wise) dithers on the ball and gets knocked off it too easily for a big bloke. He needs time and space in order to thread that killer pass (which he can do). I could level some of that at MacEachran too but he doesnt play as often as Sawyers. Sawyers gets unfairly targeted because fans see this sort of performance more often than not, yet other players like Clarke who had been on fire and KK aren’t afforded the same patience from DS
Took me a long while to get on board with our approach after MW, but I did and still am. What I question now is how it’s being implemented. Big questions for me over the suitability of DS & the recruitment team to take MB’s ideas & make em work. Sure I’m happy to stay in the division so long as we’re competitive, but that’s not the aim is it? Maybe I’m a born worrier but I’m fearful of where we’re heading atm.
Billy, I was going to write something at the weekend but it would have been a rant even by my ‘heart on sleeve’ standards.
Having read this, I’m gad I didn’t.
I started reading your piece fearing that you might try to gloss over the obvious issues affecting us like a lingering cold at the moment, but the article is spot on.
Bottom line is I don’t mind being beaten by a better side like Chelsea or even Newcastle as long as we show passion and desire.
On Saturday we tried to go toe to toe with a side that were light years ahead of us in terms of physicality and speed of thought.
Fair enough, they are world class players and a different proposition under Conte to the side we played last time, but I’d like to have seen someone get a foot on Pedro early on, yet he was given the freedom of the Bridge.
Sick of hearing the moaners slating players because, as you say, they are all technically better than anything we’ve had before.
But, and here’s the rub, you will only start to see the very best of people like McEachran, Sawyers and Woods once they have a nasty bxxxxxx sitting alongside them in the middle.
The club is moving forward, is sustainably run and everything good you mention, but it’s important we don’t lose the heart, passion and desire that allows you to play good football.
Good article.
I wrote this piece Jim after actually a very nice evening spent in Chelsea with Bees .. who hung around for ages .. till close to 11pm .. drinking . and chatting .. it was all very civil. Got the views of so many folk and I thought it was really interesting.
The whole idea of Beesotted it to try and give folk a voice and reflect views out there .. as you know …
tbh some of the opinions I don’t necessarily agree with .. but the whole idea of the article was to float these opinions out there and speak a debate .. which is seems to have done …..
I should have read this first before posting. Exactly right re midfield. We need a tough DM who can play football and distribute the ball quickly and accurately so these guys have a bit of space and time. Macca is flawed, but he was mobile, direct, agressive and ‘encouraged’ those around him. By buying all these young guys for the future we are losing out on the experience on and off the pitch older players can provide. In fact that maybe the reason why Bees have lost some aggression and fight. Weve got a load of ‘young hungry players’ but no generals on the pitch encouraging and instructing
Back in the day, we would NEVER turn up for the big game. We had Big-Game-Itis. We seemed to have overcome that hurdle in the past few years.
I was thinking about this yesterday. Yes we had some good league results over the last couple of seasons in some ‘big games’ but when was the last time we got any kind of result before a crowd of 30k or more? The 1939 season?
Brentford also cock up big games from allocating tickets to not playing their best players and letting a kid take a penalty in last minute against doncaster in league one.
Simples in’it? Sack DS. Don’t know who we could get to replace him because I am not suffiently well informed. But we need to have a run into next season with a new man.
I reckon I could motivate the team better than him – and what do I really know about the job. But I would at least fail trying my nuts off.
Things do not look too good at the moment, though I still don’t think we will go down, but I think it will be a close thing and I cannot agree that there are only 9 teams better than us in the Championship. We have some really good players but we really do lack passion and the ‘up and at em’ approach of the last few seasons.
At times, when attacking we can look really good and yet we defend for so much of the time, we are slow on the ball and always seem second best to 50/50 balls, with a defence that is prone to mistakes. How many times have we conceded after stupidly giving the ball away?
At the moment Brentford seem to fear the opposition, regardless of who they are. There have been some great performances, though not enough and the best I think was away at Brighton when the team really looked up for the challenge and attacked the opposition so well. A bit of a mid term rant really, but it is all so frustrating at the moment.
Dear Mr Levack
You seem to have forgotten that we have signed a box to box grafting replacement for the boy Douglas. It is of course none other than Josh MacEachran, obviously.
By the way, I don’t think I am inventing this – unless I’m mistaken, I think I heard it last year from someone employed on the football side of things.
Regards
Gordon
If McEachran is the box to box hardman then the recruitment department don’t know their arses from their elbows.
Equally Yennaris is not a Douglas replacement and Vibe is not a Hogan replacement.
When I have asked Dean Smith about missing the steel of McCormack and mentioned the words “dark arts” he moves the subject on and appears utterly committed to trying to play our way around teams, thus negating the need to have an enforcer.
I disagree vehemently with him on that… and I suspect that deep down, he agrees with me but is towing some kind of line dictated to him from elsewhere.
Fair play but even the silkiest footballing sides have a hard man to allow the others to play.
Like everyone else, I was hugely disappointed on Saturday afternoon with a number of aspects of the game. Poor team selection, poor tactics, poor substations, lack of commitment / passion seem to be the norm for Dean Smith and his team at the moment. In my view in the first half we sat back and watched Chelsea play around and through us at will. Make no mistake Chelsea are a class act and fully deserved to win but we made it too easy for them. ( I doubt if John Terry actually broke sweat all afternoon) Only at the start of the second half when we pushed up, crowded the space, got our tackles in and left our foot in a few times did we upset the balance and maybe look as though we might score. We should have done this from the start and not started with a defensive line up that seems to want to pass sideways all the time. It was an appalling approach that won the Manager few friends. I don’t think MB will get rid of DS this season but I sincerely hope he considers his options for the start if next season
It’s so easy to have a go .so let’s look at the reality of our situation we don’t have millions to spend only about 4 clubs in the championship have a lower average gate than us ability is one thing confidence is another (we don’t ) have much of that at the mo stability is something that all clubs seem to be missing in England at this point of time we do have this as Matthew has a clear vision of where we are heading .
I’d rather have slow and steady than like charlton a reach for the stars and crash & burn we are very similar to Millwall in size so hang on to the ride it will have its ups & downs
Good overview but I would say this. It’s funny how the Chelsea game seems to have become a season defining epoch for many, when we were always, hand on heart, on a hiding to nothing in reality.
Having said that, there were definitely elements of the Brentford setup that did cause concern, including 4 centre backs and one right back deployed in a very peculiar formation, Field being dropped, Hogan coming on late, Jota still not trusted to start, KK suddenly getting a kick, it all felt confused quite frankly. And if the manager is confused, then it’s no wonder the players are.
Of more concern to me is the level of vitriol and abuse leveled at manager and players alike from more or less the ref’s whistle at kick-off. Downstairs there was, in general, a good level of singing and support for the team but there were also many who seemed to want to slate and slag off Smith and Sawyers and McCeachran, cursing and swearing constantly. Again, there’s always been some who are glass half empty but this really was beyond the pale. The level of expectation, during our third season in the second division, appears, for some people, to be completely unrealistic.
Let’s see how we get on tonight against a Villa side who had a mini-revival under Bruce but have been more inconsistent of late. After the Newcastle match, despite the loss, I thought we’d played extremely well and could take the loss. Since then, it’s been pretty abject up at Wigan and then the Chelsea loss. A performance and a result tonight and this will be dust in the wind for now again…..
Living on the glorious Lancashire Riviera, every home match is a 500 mile round journey with not much change out of £100 with train fares etc .I am quite prepared to do this as long as I can expect a lot of effort and reasonably entertaining football. Travelling down on Saturday I thought that at least the players and coaches would be up for this one….wrong again!
I’ve had enough of this turgid, half-hearted dross: if Mr Smith cannot get his players to make the effort against Chelsea, to say nothing of Wigan, Blackburn, Rotherham etc etc,why should I, as a pensioner, invest all this time, money and effort?
The next few hours will define our season.Without significant strengthening we will struggle. Above all I would like to get the feeling when at Preston(can’t get to Villa or Brighton) that the result and performance matters to the team and management.
Billy I have just seen the team for tonight *
Bentley, Colin, Bjelland, Egan, Barbet, Jozefzoon, KK, Woods, McEachran, Hoffman and Vibe
No place for Dean, Field, McCormack, Clarke, Yennaris or Jota.
Scott Hogan signs for ********* an hour before kick off.
* poetic licence and a look at our future line ups through a crystal ball.
Let’s all hope the above Armageddon never happens but if you want to know the problems our club is facing you need look no further than the team named above.
I agree with that person in the WhatsApp convo. Feel for Vibe. He obviously came here really hyped, playing in England, had the Danish connection with Rasmus. But then he’s been asked to lead the line when he can’t and probably doesn’t want to, with little indication from the management that that will change soon. Don’t get why Smith has this idea that he has to play Vibe OR Hogan. With the clever running that Vibe does I’d much rather see him wide (and try Josefzoon on the opposite side judging by his highlight package) running in behind to create.
I feel the problem with recruitment and to an extent with Smith too, is that it still all comes down to money. We can afford to offload some cash for players these days (not a lot) because we all know the system will recoup that money (and more hopefully) if we need to. I think Saunders is the only player we’ve gotten rid off without a fee in return, which for 7 years of service I’m more than okay with.
However we may have to pay to land a manager, but won’t be able to recoup money if it doesn’t pan out. Fulham can bring in a former PL manager because they can pay him. I mean Newcastle have a manager who won the Champions League.
Pulling the plug on Dijkhuizen probably cost the club a bit of money (not much considering his stature) but I would imagine it makes them think twice when thinking about replacing a manager.
I feel or at least hope, that Kev is being groomed, to at least be in the dugout at some point to have a link between someone who not only played for the club but who played under our new system.